Bring any experience to mind. It could be as light as buying your egg and cheese sandwich this morning or as heavy as finding out you failed your first major college exam. What would Lacan say about your behavior in this experience? What would Freud say about your memory of this experience?
In this post, I want you to:
First provide an objective summary of a piece of both theories that relates to your experience/anecdote. (Example: According to Lacan, once a child realizes that he has control of his limbs but nothing else, he begins to experience a natural feeling of jealousy and agressivity to others, because he realizes that he can’t control them. According to Freud, our memories are distorted versions of the truth.)
Then, I want you to provide your anecdote/experience in very short terms. (Example: Today I stood in a long line to buy an egg and cheese sandwich at the cart outside Hunter West).
Finally, I want you to relate your anecdote/experience back to Lacan’s ideas and to Freud’s ideas—the ones for which you provided objective summaries. (I’m not giving you examples here because I don’t want to limit your thoughts).
*Don’t forget to comment on at least two of your classmates’ responses. {Yes, this is challenging; with no apologies for the challenge in this prompt, I can’t wait to read your responses!}
Then, I want you to provide your anecdote/experience in very short terms. (Example: Today I stood in a long line to buy an egg and cheese sandwich at the cart outside Hunter West).
Finally, I want you to relate your anecdote/experience back to Lacan’s ideas and to Freud’s ideas—the ones for which you provided objective summaries. (I’m not giving you examples here because I don’t want to limit your thoughts).
*Don’t forget to comment on at least two of your classmates’ responses. {Yes, this is challenging; with no apologies for the challenge in this prompt, I can’t wait to read your responses!}
According to Lacan, self awareness comes at a young age, and once realised, leads to maturity and new sense of dominance. From that point on, a person realises that it is essentially them versus the world, with only his/her abilities at their disposal. The whole world is a mirror in which that person sees him/herself reflected and modifies their actions, thoughts, and feelings.
ReplyDeleteBoth Lacan and Freud talk about the development of a person, and while Lacan talks more directly about the 'self,' Freud talks about memories in his Magic Slate Toy Theory. Freud suggests that memories are built up upon and layer to structure the unique consciousness of every person. In this way, memories also influence the way that people think and changes their personality.
For example, today I was buying some books, nothing in particular, but just some novels to read on my down time. Whenever I buy books, I always have to examine the available copies before picking one to call mine, disregarding the copies that even have a little imperfection. Today, I went through about 5 different copies before picking one I liked.
What do Lacan and Freud say about this? Lacan's theory mostly speaks to self awareness and aggressive dominance. So how does this relate to me? Even stretching this theory, I feel like this just shows how I take advantage of the only resource entirely in my control- me. Humans by nature are greedy and we want the best that we can get. All I can do in my situation is to try and pick the best that I have the power to pick, even if this pertains to something as menial and simple as a book. Because of this, I have the best, and if everything in life is a competition (as small as having the best things) I can win.
But what about Freud? What would he say? Because Freud's theory focuses on the study of memories, he would argue that the reason why I am very selective about my books is because past experience warns me to be. My subconscious is telling me to not get a damaged or imperfect book. This could be because I have had a past experience with getting damaged books that I regret. Did I have a book that was dented and did I happen to not like the book? Did it just really annoy me having an imperfect book? What does this say about my personality? Since memories aren't a concrete thing, I don't remember a specific instance when I decided to be frugal about books, but I know that I just am.
Your example is really good when talking about bother Lacan and Freud's theory. Choosing the best book is only natural and basically anyone would find the best book. Freud's theory also relates to this because of experience like you said which also has a huge effect and it occurs when we don't even realize it. -Jada
DeleteI really enjoyed your example. It is really fascinating how these theories are applicable to the smallest actions and experiences we have.
DeleteYou picking the best book reminds me of society picking out its best citizens.So maybe thats where you get the idea that you need to get a book that is perfect without any flaws because thats what society chooses to fantasize about.
DeleteIf we are naturally jealous of others and their ability to control that which we cannot, is there any way to rectify this jealousy? Do we live our lives to spite the control others have? I mean, it's like we live our lives under the phrase 'Only I can control myself, not you.' I think this is the case; we live for our own personal fulfillment, but also because we want to prove that we control ourselves, and because we want to eventually control something other than ourselves.
ReplyDeleteFor example, when I was but a young lad, I was cruising on a day-to-day basis, whatever happens, happens. In that situation, the only existential meaning my life had was to live for myself, and not be totally controlled by others. Yeah, there were rules and regulations that I followed, but I interpreted them as I saw fit - I lived my own way, and never marched to the beat of somebody else's drum.
What about you? How do you live your life?
-Omar Romero
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DeleteI liked your example and it relates to Lacan's point of view since you talk about having control of yourself. I also liked when you said we live for our own fulfillment, but this can also play a role in having authority and power. -Jada
DeleteHmm these are really thought provoking questions. This may seem horrible by I live my life somewhat anxiously and I'm always aware of things because that's just how my personality is. This connects back to Lacan's theory because my environment such as school and my parents affects this. I sort of take a lot of precautions.
DeleteThis ties with what we were discussing in Waller's today-- the resentment of the rich by mere virtue of their financial circumstances. I believe jealousy is an inevitable asset of life, as the desire to have a better standard of living is culturally developed (which I think is more true for American society). Lacan, proposes that with the recognition of your self as a separate entity comes maturity that is developed from intelligence. In reality, however, this recognition gives an individual justification and choice to act on the basis of personal needs, since that person doesn't acknowledge himself/herself as the entire environment anymore, and rather is led to believe that since he/she can only control personal actions, then they must act in the interest of security (which can lead to exploitation or discrimination).
DeleteI really like Nicholas's reply that takes it back to what we learned in Ms.Waller's class. But to respond to Omar's question: Do we live our lives to spite the control others have? I don't think we live our lives to spite the control others have. It's a fact, that we are naturally jealous of others, that's just human nature. However, jealousy comes in different forms. For example, I can look at someone with jealousy because they're good at sports. This might give me a motivation to becomes good at sports myself. So I think that jealousy might not always be a bad thing, since it keeps us moving forward.
DeleteThis ties with what we were discussing in Waller's today-- the resentment of the rich by mere virtue of their financial circumstances. I believe jealousy is an inevitable asset of life, as the desire to have a better standard of living is culturally developed (which I think is more true for American society). Lacan, proposes that with the recognition of your self as a separate entity comes maturity that is developed from intelligence. In reality, however, this recognition gives an individual justification and choice to act on the basis of personal needs, since that person doesn't acknowledge himself/herself as the entire environment anymore, and rather is led to believe that since he/she can only control personal actions, then they must act in the interest of security (which can lead to exploitation or discrimination).
DeleteBased on Lacan's theory, people are only in control of their own actions instead of others which can cause jealousy in any situation. This indicates a natural tendency to be in power and have control when things don't go our way. Not only can this cause jealousy but it can also cause negative emotions to take place which is also natural. On the other hand Freud's theory, indicates memories related to a writing pad. A writing pad can show the steps of certain memories throughout the brain and how memories are stored and sometimes recalled. Both these theories can relate to my personal experiences. For example, In my psychology class, one essay was based on the first memory we remembered as a child. This essay considered plenty of thinking since memory is unreliable. Lacan would say that I am in control of myself, but there is certain things I can't control like memories. Freud would say that there is a process for memories and as we recall them, we may change up the actual truth based on current emotions or past emotions when that experience took place. -Jada
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that our memories are unreliable. In Freud's theory the wax slab contains the memories, but overtime these memories get buried and blurred. In addition, the way you "write" on the writing pad is the reason why you remember your childhood in a certain way.
DeleteSo if a person, say Bobbie, can only control him/herself and is not able to remember something(s), but someone else, let's say Harry, might have the ability to remember more than Bobbie, would that mean that Bobbie could feel jealous towards Harry (since Bobbie can't control Harry's more dominant abilities)? Like you said, this is where jealousy stems from. So I think that it's safe to say that jealousy can be, if not is, rooted in the idea that a person will feel negatively towards another if the other person has more control over so and so than this person.
DeleteJada, I think what you said is very insightful, but it takes Lacan's theory too literally. I think that when Lacan says we control ourselves, he doesn't mean natural actions like memory, but rather physical movements and the manipulation of objects.
Delete-Omar Romero
I agree with everything you wrote especially with the idea that you can't control your memories because as you get older, your memories lose their clarity. Also you can't control, what happens to you, so you can't control what memories you have.
DeleteAccording to Lacan, a child is an individual that exists in an environment in which he/she can not control but, nonetheless, must be responsible for role in the environment. According to Freud, the mind can not retain full memory of an event.
ReplyDeleteOn the subway, there is a sign that reads, "Give up your seat to an elderly or disabled person. Courtesy is contagious and it starts with you." i was on the train one day reading a book on my kindle when a somewhat elderly woman entered the cart and stood close to me. I knew that someone should offer up their sit so the woman could sit but I didn't want to be that person; I was tired and my back hurt. I looked around the people sitting closest to me and immediately focused on a man sitting two sits from me. Naturally, I thought the guy should stand up and offer his seat but of course (I'm not really all that surprised), he didn't. Therefore I, being the strong black woman that I am, got up and kindly offered up my sit to the elderly woman. For the rest of the train ride, I shot daggers at the man's head.
I think Lacan would say that I demonstrated strengths and weakness. I showed strength by offering up my sit and thus, being responsible in my environment; but I showed weakness by being angry ad jealous at the man for still having a sit when he should have been the one to offer up his seat. I think Freud would say that I only remember what I want to remember about the event. Maybe I didn't want to give up my sit initially because I was being selfish instead of being tired and weak. Freud would say that I wouldn't be able to remember the exact event because I didn't write it down on a mystic writing pad.
I completely agree with you Omi. Our memories tend to get altered depending on how you felt at the moment. If he were to get up first, would you think of him differently? What if he had a reason to not get up? Maybe his back hurt too.
DeleteI completely agree with you Omi. Our memories tend to get altered depending on how you felt at the moment. If he were to get up first, would you think of him differently? What if he had a reason to not get up? Maybe his back hurt too.
DeleteI like that thought process that you went through Omi. Also, Cal that' s a good question that you raised. Of course, if I was Omi, I would think of that guy differently. It's not hard to especially since as commuters, we are faced with that courtesy almost on a daily basis. What if he really did have an ailment? We won't really ever know that. However, I think that of course he would have been looked at differently. Our perception of an event can be drastically altered even by adding one new detail.
DeleteIt is very interesting how you took this experience and connected it to these two theories. This happens very frequently and I never really thought about it in this way or saw how it connected to these theories but it makes complete sense. This is a very unique approach. I had a similar situation on the train where a lady was sitting down and had her luggage on the seats next to her and was taking up two chairs. When I see this it irritates me because like everyone else in the train we are paying for the ride and people could be sitting in those seats. A lady comes in and she tells the lady to move her nags because she paid for that seat and the seat was not for luggage. The lady picks up her nags and once the lady sits down she puts her bags down again in the chair not giving the lady the adequate space she needed. How would you connect this experience to these theories?
DeleteI think the 'child' is a statement of one's maturity and mental development, rather than their physical years of life. In the situation in which Calvin's paradigm isn't true, and he was in fact physically capable of giving up his seat, then the man is still trapped in an ego-ideal state where he doesn't recognize the influence he is having on the given environment and prioritizes his personal needs out of selfishness. I think Lacan would recognize your act as one of 'intelligence', as it reflects a mature quality of yours that is benevolent and selfless. Interestingly enough, Lacan mentions that this recognition of one's self as a distinct member of the environment "releases aggressivity to [any] other...even in a relation involving the most Samaritan of aid". I thought his theory was relevant in that aggressivity was still evoked toward the man that didn't stand up, despite your positive action.
DeleteMERCY.. Omi.. Fuguritive daggers hurt the most lol, but regardless, your experience worked well with both theories.. I don't think there's much I can add to all that has been said, but nonetheless... Grrat Stuff^^^^
DeleteBut subjective gender roles!! *Drops Mic* haha
Figurative* my bad. I used my phone..
DeleteGreat* once again.. my phone..
In his mirror theory, Lacan states that the "I" can control its body, but nothing else. Freud's theory involves different kinds of experiences, which are analogous to the writing utensils (pen or stylus).
ReplyDeleteIn NYC, there are infinite combinations of wardrobes. While walking to school one day, I saw someone wearing an unflattering outfit. Since then, I have started to think about my own appearances and how people might think of me. What I wear is a personal decision. However, I can't control what other people wear and what they think about what I'm wearing.
My experience connects back to Lacan and Freud's theories. Lacan says that "I" controls the body, signifying personal decisions. But "I" can't control others; they're impossible to change. In addition, Freud's theory relates to my experience because the memory of seeing someone else's poor appearance makes me more conscious of what I'm wearing and how other people can potentially view me.
I think that everyone has those moments you look at someone and it makes you reevaluate your own life. However, in doing this, aren't we being judgmental? Of course we are, but by stretching Lacan's theory, specifically the portion in which he explains the concept of aggressivity. We are using our own resources, which are the only things that we have control over, to better ourselves. It's perfectly reasonable. It's human nature. We want to look the best and be the best. Thus, being a little judgmental is perfectly justifiable.
DeleteI think that your view, Calvin, also ties into the identity aspect (in the sense that a person's appearance and how other people view that person's appearance plays a part in that person's identity) that both Lacan and Freud touch upon. With Lacan's theory, a person develops their most basic part of his/her identity of "okay, I'm me and can only control me," at an early age. With Freud's theory, it is implied that a person's memories make up part of a person's identity (since the past impacts a person's identity).
DeleteI am writing about this in my college essay! I completely agree with you Calvin. I think that in both cases no matter how much we say that we do not control others and that maybe in some cases others can control us the influence is still there. We allow "the other" to take control over us because we end up falling in society's trap where we think that being are true selves or not acting or looking the same as other people is the wrong way to be. Thus, we start to re identify ourselves in "the others" lens and start to doubt the identity we previously had or assumed was our own.
DeleteI love the example you used to portray the idea that only "i" can control myself not others. However, there are also situations in which outside factors and people can control the way you dress. For example uniform, this is something that is used in several institutions and society usually accepts, therefore I believe "I" is not the only one that can control the self.
DeleteI agree with Darelis, there are other factors that can alter the way you dress. For example, your parents can contribute to the way you dress. They may not want you to dress a certain way so you have to abide with their decisions. Overall, in some situations you may not always have complete control over yourself.
DeleteYour example is really fitting for both of these theories. What we wear and the kinds of perceptions it can evoke is really interesting.
DeleteI have to add that we Can control others, through manipulation or repetitive information.For example If I say a phrase constantly, my friends are bound to pick it up, in that way I control what they say. Influencing someone into doing something is also a type of control.
DeleteAccording to Lacan, the mirror stage establishes the ego as fundamentally dependent upon external objects, on an other. As the so-called "individual" matures and enters into social relations through language, this "other" will be elaborated within social and linguistic frameworks that will give each subject's personality its particular characteristics. For Freud, the erasable wax tablet as a near-perfect illustration of his idea of the links between perception and memory.
ReplyDeleteLast night, I was scrolling down my instagram, and I realized just how much social media permeates our lives.Lacan’s Mirror Stage of development is a concept in the psychoanalytic theory of Jacques Lacan describing the formation of one’s identity through perception of imagery. Long story short, ensuring who we think we are matches up to what we see in the mirror.
The concept in and of itself is interesting. But, when you apply a social lens to it, things become fascinating. Social media, a channel we typically use to curate our “best selves”, provides both the platform we use to build our identity as well as the mirror.
In “A Note Upon the Mystic Writing-Pad,” Freud presents a technological prosthesis that might replicate the functioning of the psychic apparatus.What does this have to do with the mytic pad, you might say.As more and more of our lives are lived out on social media the comprehensiveness of this memory becomes ever more absolute. The potential consequences of this development are both liberatory and oppressive. We may be able to gain insight into the constitution of our subjectivities to a degree only available to the most diligent of researchers through the availability of our media past. In a way, social media is it’s own form of a “mystic writing pad.”
I agree with what you said about how we try match ourselves up with what we see in the mirror. I'll take it a step further and say that social media is free validation for whoever want it. I mean, anyone can post something and anyone can like it, and slowly but surely people evolve into only posting things that generate more likes. How would you feel if something you posted got 2,000 likes, but then another thing got three likes? You'd probably post more of what got more likes. This illustrates what I mean when I say we validate ourselves, and it goes back to what you said about matching ourselves with what we see in the mirror.
DeleteWe are stereotypes of ourselves.
-Omar Romero
I found what you said to be interesting. I agree with you when you say that people use social media to build their identity. I also think that for many people, social media is for false advertisement. For instance, Instagram allows people to add all these different filters to make their picture look better but that's not the normal picture, so its fake. I think Lacan would say that social media is a sneaky and wrong way in which people are able to control their environment. Social media allows people the ability to try to control the way others perceive them or try to control how they look. How can social media be a true representation of our lives?
DeleteWhen Omar states that "How would you feel if something you posted got 2,000 likes, but then another thing got three likes? You'd probably post more of what got more likes", I think this kind of scenario demonstrate a sense of individuals letting themselves being define by their environment. Perhaps that post have 2,000 likes but the one with 3 likes was more appealing to, then why would you like the one with higher ranking based on what others say. It like you are letting social media define how you choose to think of things, (product of your environment)
DeleteInstagram and other social media have a big influence on us. We can not control how others perceive us yet we want their validation. Why else would we want to post something where we see how popular we are with the amount of likes we get? Yet sometimes, the way we look in pictures is completely different than the way we look in real life. Does that mean we care more about artificial popularity, popularity that can actually be proven with likes than popularity that can be felt through the friendliness and praise of peers?
DeleteAccording to Lacan, at an early age, a child realizes that he or she can only control him or herself, and no one else in the environment. This prompts a child to automatically/subconsciously feel naturally defensive and in competition with everyone else. So, he/she can't trust that others would not harm him/her. Similarly, Freud implies that our memories are another thing can't be trusted either because memories are often times flawed. This, in turn, suggests that we can't trust our own minds. So if we can't trust others and we can't trust ourselves, who's left to trust? Obviously, no one! Interestingly enough, I have a story that relates to this.
ReplyDeleteA week ago, I came home without buying lunch since there's food in the fridge that I can microwave and gobble up nomnomnom. I come home and surprise surprise, my fridge harbors a bunch of exotic asian spices and sauces, raw meats, and whip cream. Then it hit me, my mom told me to buy food cause there wasn't any that I can readily eat at home without preparation (I don't trust myself around a stove and neither do my parents). So I asked my mom to come home early to make something for me. She didn't :)
Here, my memory is flawed. I forgot what my mom had told me, even though it was important. Therefore, I can't trust that I will remember things efficiently. Same goes with my mom. I can't control her actions and I can't trust her to do something that won't harm me. Although her not coming home early to feed me wasn't intentional, it still harmed me (by starving me). So, I can't trust her either.
Same, you cannot trust your memories because it's like a community pool. There are a bunch of people that go in the pool, they then contaminate the water leaving their "residue" behind and people come and go in and out this pool. Much like a brain and its memory storage. Memories come and contaminate other memories and this causes other memories to leave or be stained by another.
DeleteI agree 100% with you Valerie, memories are flawed no matter how important they are. Memories are bombarded with things that occur on a daily basis so it is quite hard to recall something with great detail despite its significance. It's crazy that our memories are flawed though, as they are what we depend on. - Cierra B.
DeleteHA! I like it :) Trust no one!!! Not even yourself! But regardless of how ideal the notion sounds, realistically, we hold on to this trust daily despite the knowledge of its deceitful nature. So I'd guess it's about weighing trust. Atleast if you decide to trust yourself, the majority of distortion is within your favor lol
DeleteAccording to Lacan's Mirror Theory the "I" or individual is a reflection of what others perceive "it" to be. The individual is subject to the vulnerability associated with becoming a product of his/her environment. This is when we come into the realization that we only have control over ourselves. Our existence is determined by being acknowledged by others. Thus' we are naturally inclined to seek validation and start to develop resentment towards "the other" for the power it has over us. This theory intertwines with Freud's psychological theory because they both hint at the concept that our identity is not a product of our creation or choice. Our identity is composed of our memories, experiences, and interactions with the environment. We are in control of how "the other" affects us, how "the other" makes us feel, and how we chose to act based on those feelings, but the rest is completely out of our control. As a result we instinctively and unknowingly nurture the "the others" control over our identity.
ReplyDeleteSAT scores in my opinion are a prime example of the correlation between Freud's theory and Lacan's Theory. Why? Well the test itself is a game that requires the use of our memory. The test is not in any way shape or form an exam that tests intelligence. It is an exam that tests logic, memory, and strategy. But if according to Freud our memory isn't reliable then why do we feel like we have a chance at mastering this test?
When we connect the SAT scores to Lacan's theory we focus on how our identity the identity we present to colleges becomes a number. After taking the SAT we lose the control we previously had to communicate to the college that we are worth their acceptance? This happens because our SAT scores depict something completely different. The depict a total of 4 hours of intense test-taking and fail to acknowledge everything that it took and went into taking that test or outside factors like income which is directly proportional to preparation availability. Although we can discuss for hours how we are not defined by a number we are not in control of that and we never will be.
I love your comment Crystal!! I also think the SAT is a load of crap. I never even thought about there being a correlation between the SAT and Lacan and Freud's theories so thank you for shedding some light on that. However, I wouldn't say that the SAT defines us in college's eyes because we do have ways in which we can show our personality or talk about our lives like in our personal statement, but I do believe that the test paints a false picture of who we are to colleges before they even try to read our stories.
DeleteI really like your example on how the SAT correlates to these two theories :) These stupid tests don't really determine anything and they just put a label on students. Lacan states that jealously and aggression are present when we are not in control. This is evident in this example because we are all basically in competition to get the highest score possible to get into the best college possible.
DeleteI really like your interpretation of the SATs in association with Freud's and Lacan's theory. With the SATs, we can not really depend on our memory to help us get through the test. We mostly rely on quick thinking to get us through. But when instructors tell us to keep doing problems, what does that do for us? Do we rely on our memory on how to solve that problem to help us out with future problems? For all we know, we did the problem wrong. Our memory has no way of knowing whether we did it right or wrong. And even if we did do it right, doing many other problems can create a mashed up layer when people can get confused on what technique they should use because they are relying on too many memories of too many problems.
Delete-Bao Nguyen
I like your example and how you bring it back to the SAT, I feel like we try to gain control over the SAT, and then get jealous/ frustrated when others have more control over it, by Lacan's theory. By Freud's theory the SAT is just a filler of mindless junk that is taking up space for our own memories.In my opinion that is.
DeleteIn the mirror theory, Lacan talks about this idea of self-awareness and “the drama of primordial jealousy” and “aggressivity”. He explains how as you become more aware your being you begin to link these idea of the “self” and the “others”. Strangely enough, this morning, I was actually having a very relaxing morning and everything seem to be running smooth. While I was on the train, on my way to school, I decided to put a little bit of mascara and lipstick because I actually had time to do so. While I was finishing up with the mascara, I looked but and saw the gentleman in front of me and two other girls two seats away look at me in an inquisitive kind of way. For some strange reason I was overcome by this strange feeling of embarrassment and aggressiveness. Personally, I don’t understand why I felt this way, it is not the first time I have experience this. I think it was because after learning about the mirror theory I become more aware of my actions and how people perceive it, but when I responded like that it was also almost instinctively. Moreover, at the time that happen, I felt judge, because why were they looking at me in the first place.
ReplyDeleteFreud’s theory relates to my anecdote because perhaps at the time I connected them looking at me to a negative memory that was related to the scenario was witnessing, I just can’t remember what that memory was because it is somewhere hidden in my subconscious, this proves how flawed memories can be. I could had also connected it to all the stereotypes and contradictory opinions that are reflected over this idea of “make-up”. I don’t really wear make-up, but I like putting on mascara and lipstick every now and then. Also, my emotion at the time might have interfered with the way I perceived that situation. Maybe they were just looking around and at exact moment I looked up they just happen to be looking in my direction, there was no need for me to feel this sense of self-defense. Truth is that I don’t have control over what goes through a person’s head, which can be related to Lacan’s theory. At the moment, those individual were being my mirror and to a sense they made me question the choice I had made. However, I still did it because I chose to do it, it was my decision. If I can't control the way they think, then they shouldn't control the way I think either.
I agree with you that sometimes if a memory is negative you might see the situation in a negative light. But then again memories are flawed in the first place so why bother correcting them if it's not the truth.
DeleteBoth of these theories relates to our subconscious and how it has both direct and long term effects on us. In the mirror theory, this idea of a subconscious forming causing self awareness. This is particularly interesting because in Freud's theory, our memories are flawed and become disoriented because of all the memories in one place. Now if we're subconsciously absorbing events and storing them, how come we are not aware of them and access those stored memories willingly. Can we actually trust what is in our minds, there is a difference between a memory and reality. Feelings, people and other outside influences can affect how we memorize things.
ReplyDeleteFor example, when you listen to a sentence or phrase it often has to be repeated in order to incorporate into your memory. However, if you put a spin on it by adding a beat or sound or associating that phrase with something more familiar then you can remember it more easily. This is your subconscious linking memories together, which you are first unaware of but then you realize the link. Now there is mix between two separate memories. It can be mixed or lost in translation. Therefore we can't trust or memory.
Our minds and memories work in a way that is combination of both theories.
Devin, I think that you're absolutely correct - our minds and memories are interconnected and cannot function without one or the other. We hold our memories in our minds, and maybe if we want to hold stronger memories, we have to incorporate mind tricks and games. Although we can incorporate tips and tricks, our memories are still untrustworthy - what if we forget the spin we added on a phrase or something of that nature?
DeleteDevin, I think you brought up a very interesting point regarding this idea that if you put a spin on it by adding a beat or sound or associating that phrase to something familiar. It like when we learn the quadratic formula, personally, I founded it easy to remember because of sing-song tone that we say in. I think this idea can also we used when referring to our sensory in general. for example, some people use a distinctive fragrance that our brain has connected to when identifying that person. Let say you are walking and you happen to sense the same fragrance a memory of that person might come to our heads.
DeleteLacan's mirror theory suggest that one develops a sense of self awareness at a very early stage in life. Specifically, the moment when an infant sees himself/herself in the mirror and discovers that they are the ones controlling the actions of the person they see in the mirror. During this moment infants begin to feel jealousy as they realize that others can also control the actions of the person they see in the mirror, while the baby cannot control others. Similarly Freud's magic slate theory suggest that ones memory is something we have no control over. Outside factors like time and overlapping experiences can fade the memories of the moments we encounter throughout our lives.Basically, as individuals humans have very little power over themselves.We are driven by society and outside factors in our lives. For example, in the morning when you are entering the crowded trains you let yourself be pushed around by the people around you. You don't have the control over your body at that moment, your movement depends on the moving train and on the pushes you receive from the crowd. In cases like these Lacan might use his theory to prove that most of the time we are letting ourselves be manipulated and controlled by other people. Freud will also agree with Lacan because inevitable there are moments that our bodies and minds are controlled by things other than ourselves.
ReplyDeleteI feel like humans react to other humans instead of just following them. Your train car example, for example, can easily be avoided if you start going earlier or you find another mean of traveling like driving or walking. In regards to our memories, you can control them by controlling what you experience. Are you going to experience a crowded train or are you going to experience a breezy car. Your actions cause experiences that cause memories so just control your actions
DeleteSimilarly, like Anthony mentioned "just control your actions" you do have a sense of control in your actions. Going back to your example you have the ability to wake up earlier. Based on your memories or experiences you will know that the trains are always crowded so this would cause you to try to find another way to keep away from this situation. Even though Lacan says that you have control only over yourself, there are other things that can influence you.
DeleteAccording to Jaques Lacan, once a baby identifies itself and knows what it can do it realizes that it can only control its own actions, not the actions of others. According to Sigmund Freud, only important memories are remembered in our minds.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was younger my brother used to pick me up from school and he would usually buy me a snack to eat. One particular day I was sick with the cold, but I asked my brother to buy me ice cream which he happily did. Once my mom found out she punished my brother and he remembers that incident ever since.
This shows that it was out of my brother control to know whether or not I was sick, and since this event was a big one for him he still remembers it, unlike me who forgot about a week later and is being constantly reminded every month,
This is relatable to myself, and it's quite fascinating that our brains work this way. I feel like we mostly remember the bad moments we have involving other people. For example, I remember more of when I got punished by my parents than when I was rewarded by them. I think this has to do with Lacan's mirror theory. Because my parents controlled me when I'm the only thing I can control, those moments when I lost control of what I can do were most remembered.
DeleteI understand you Anthony. Whenever I make a mistake, my parents would always remind me. It is because they know that we will not make the same mistake if we are constantly reminded of the incident or if it has impacted us enough to remember it without help.
DeleteAccording to the mirror theory, Lacan infers that a person does not have power over someone else, instead, a person can only control his/her self. Furthermore, according to Freud, our memories are maintained, but they are not always trustworthy because they are bombarded and covered with other events and activities.
ReplyDeleteThis may not be the greatest example but, I am a very very indecisive person. I can't make simple decisions at all, it is as if I overthink the consequences of my choices and can never make a consensus. So one time, I was torn between if I should go out with my friends or study for my math exam. I chose to go out with my friends because I was confident that I was going to pass my test. I was 100% positive that I was going to remember how to solve the problems and such, but when the test was in front of me, I blanked. I could not remember a thing. It wasn't because I was nervous, it was because I simply could not remember what to do.
Therefore, this experience reflects the mirror and memory theories proposed by Lacan and Freud. Since I am indecisive, it was hard for me to make a decision, but in the end, me, myself, and I carried out the action to hang out with my friends - no one influenced me. I had the power over myself to do what I wanted. This also reflects Freud because I was confident I was going to remember the steps, but I forgot, as I was busy and occupied with other things. Therefore, we control ourselves and we can't only trust our memories - we need extra support.
I definitely agree with you, Cierra, as our choices are completely our own. Yes, there may be influential factors, like maybe a friend trying to convince you to hang out, but overall, it was your choice whether or not you went out or prepared for your exam. I wonder, though, what kind of support we need? You state that we can't trust our memories, so what do we do to remember? Stay in and study? However, you said you were sure you knew what you were doing in math. This leaves me unsure as to what steps to take- do you stay in and study (even though you were confident) or do you relax and hang out? Maybe it depends on the individual?
Delete-Sinead
Lacan's theory states that when an individual develops an ego, narcissism and aggression is present. He states that the 'I' is always in relation to 'the other'. In this case, a child recognizes a division between itself and others. This can also mean that we essentially see ourselves through other people and depending on the situation, people and memories contribute to who we are. When the child sees his or her self in the mirror disjointed, it demonstrates how our bodies are fragmented and is made up of different factors. One example of how these theories interconnect is the concept of our dreams. We have dreams all the time and some we remember, some don't. The ones we remember are the apex dreams which are the bizarre ones. According to Lacan, we cannot control these things even though they happen to us. Plus, it is evident that our environment affects our dreams, such as if you have encountered a traumatic experience, it is likely that you will have nightmares of what you go through. In Freud's world, memories and dreams are intertwined because when we wake up do we recall these dreams? Not really, just like we can't recall our distorted memories. Overall, our minds and bodies are not in our control most of the time. It has to do with our peers and the environment.
ReplyDeleteI do not think our dreams intertwine with our memory because a dream is like something we want to happen or what we fantasize about happening. As for our memories it is something that has already happened. Also, I agree with that "our minds and bodies are not in our control most of the time" because when we are dreaming we are not able to make ourselves stop dreaming about things we would try to take our minds off of, as if we were awake to do that.
DeleteI like the part where you said that we essentially see ourselves through other people. This is true because different people contribute to different parts of who we are. We see ourselves as goofy and outgoing when we are with our friends, proper and sophisticated around our teachers, or conservative around our parents. But this is not the same for everyone. Different types of people can ignite different parts of our personality.
DeleteAccording to Lacan, jealousy is something that starts at a young age because we realize that we don’t have control over the things that are surround us. As humans, it is hard to try to control what people say or do in your presence because they have the free will to do and say whatever they want. Also, we have the tendencies to have to try to prove ourselves to others as better because of the popularity that another person has. Why? It is mainly due to the fact that we don’t accept ourselves for who we are but seek approval from others. As for Freud, our memories turn into a compilation of past events that help shape us into the person that we become. But with having a compilation of memories, we tend to forget some of the details of the memory we are trying to recall or might mix some of the details from one memory with another one. Both Lacan and Freud's theories, call for us to try to piece together how events and perceptions of others affect our lives.
ReplyDeleteToday, I was waiting on line to get food after school and there were two other people standing there waiting to get their order. At first, they were just talking amongst each other and then one of them made direct eye contact with me. Talk about creepy, I felt so uncomfortable because I had no idea on why that person was staring me down. Long story short, I felt like I was being judged from the inside out, in that little bit of time.
I think Lacan would say that just because a person is looking at you doesn’t mean nothing at all because people have the ability to look at whatever they feel like looking at and there is nothing I can do or say about. As for Freud, I think he would make me want to question myself because I could have said something that triggered the others person’s mind. Since memories are something that happen continuously I could have forgotten what I said or did to make that person look at me.
Tori- I definitely agree with you. I see your point about validation and approval from others. I think that is a key reason social media is so popular. You state that people try to prove themselves, but who are they proving themselves to? Someone in particular or just people in general? I think your example highlights this because you didn't know the girl, but you still felt violated and uncomfortable because she looked at you a certain way. With that, it goes toward how others perceive you.
Delete-Sinead
Sigmund Freud's analogy demonstrates the complexity of human identity by analyzing that our existence subsists in the form of a celluloid (one's superficial and perceived self) and waxed paper (the stacked-up experiences that shape one's developing self). The "permanent trace" he references as the result of an experience on our identity is also reflective of Jacques Lacan's claim on the perpetual effect of the recognition of one's self as an entity separate from its environment. Lacan emphasizes that this act "represents an essential stage of the act of intelligence".
ReplyDeleteIn other words, Lacan and Freud's combined theory argues that the human capability of separating themselves from environmental influence is determined by a revolutionary sense of social consciousness that forms the basis of intelligence. In even more explicit language, both individuals highlight the importance of individual awareness in a social setting to distinguish between their own identity (which is a product of experience and its emotional influence) and the perceived one (which is the superficial 'celluloid').
Furthermore, Lacan's usage of the word "intelligence" is in a relative sense, in that most animals don't have the mental ability to reach this conclusion of 'mediatization' (hence the chimpanzee comparison). What most of us identify as the annexation of ourselves from public or societal opinion is common human behavior. Such observations and distinctions don't make us 'intelligent' individuals, but rather an intelligent species. The argument might exist that if we are an intelligent species, then we are constituted by intelligent individuals. Even though this is formally true, the definition and applications of the word are used to imply other things in present society.
A personal example of the disparity between a perceived opinion about me and my own reflection of my identity is the common assumption that I'm white. I don't identify myself, neither formally (on documentation) nor informally (with friends) as a white person. For me, based on the historical context of this label, I don't feel comfortable with describing myself as an individual that belongs to a race that has been historically subordinative and wealthy. Perhaps this is a reflection of the economic comfort difference between my own circumstances and that of the average stereotypical white person. Or maybe it is because I am culturally more identifiable with being Brazilian, given that I grew up most of my life with my mom, rather than Greek (which would retain my white label). Regardless, I commonly fill-in my race as Other on tests and surveys that request my identification, since none of the given descriptions accurately depict my personal identity.
Based on Lacan's Mirror Theory, a person becomes aware of self control and his/her surroundings. Also, he/she learns that he/she only has control of his/her body, and no control of the surroundings. With this, there is a sense of aggression, as the person learns that they cannot control everything. With this though, self awareness is essential, as one may not be able to control others, but the actions the person can control, can impact the surroundings.
ReplyDeleteThis morning, as I treked to my 9:10am math class, the train was very crowded. Often times I have to let trains go until there is actual room for people to stand. However, people, even when they know they're not going to fit, still try to push themselves on. I choose to let trains go, knowing that another one will come shortly, but those people who try to squish into an already jammed packed train slow down and delay the morning commute for everyone. I am in no control over the person throwing their body into a wall of people, but that action directly impacts me. Thus, proving that although you may not be able to control your surroundings, your actions do impact them.
My experience through Lacan’s eyes shows how one action can have a domino effect. Through one person being impatient, the rest of the people waiting are left waiting longer. In the eyes of Freud, my experience would ultimately impact my memory. As I am flustered by train delays and the efforts of commuting, I probably would have a hard time remembering what I need to for my math class. Even though it I have to commute to get to school, the added chaos allows me to feel flustered and therefore forgetful.
I agree with you Sinead about other people's actions do impact others because it allows the person to take either make someone else's commute easier or just make it harder. It is like the same thing I dealt with today, before I took my math exam because my teacher spent 20 minutes on teaching 2.7 which hindered me from having the full 2 hours to finish my test causing me to almost forget everything I had studied for. I suppose people think by doing something their way or on their own time is beneficial to their situation but it may not be beneficial to them around them.
DeleteLacan's mirror theory demonstrates that a human beings can not subject their control on other people or the environment around them. This realization occurs when one is young and at a young age, humans tend to succumb to their emotions and act out irrationally. As we grow older, we like to think that we have more control of our emotions. Control of ourselves is the only possible form of command we have in this world. However, is this really true? Do we really have control over our own actions and emotions? To answer this question, no. Humans do not have full control of anything. The way we act when we realize this depends on our experiences and according to Freud, our memories can affect how we perceive our past moments.
ReplyDeleteA couple of years ago, my cousin visited me. She came back from college and my aunt decided to take us out shopping. While we were shopping, my aunt came across this sweater that had my cousin and me squealing. However, there was only one left. Before I could stake my claim on the sweater, my cousin already snatched it away from me. This is when Lacan's theory come into play. Even though I wanted that sweater, I could not control another human being's decisions in order to benefit me. I could not have made her slow down her hands in time or make her give it to me. Lacan's theory also comes into play during my reaction to it. I wish I could say that I was mature and that I was not angry about her taking the sweater that I really really wanted. But I was angry, maybe not on the outside, but I was most definitely peevish.
According to Freud's theory, I could have remembered how I felt all wrong. I based my memories of feeling angry due to my other memories in similar situations. I inferred that I felt angry because that is normally how I would react. Maybe I remembered wrong? Maybe I actually felt calm or I did not care at all.
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ReplyDeleteIn Lacan’s Mirror Stage theory, the “I” is essentially when a person is able to recognize that he/she does not have dominance over anything but their own actions and “body” and is therefore found in a state of jealousy or aggressivity because of their inability to control other aspects or people in their surrounding environment. In Freud’s theory, he suggests that the memories we sustain can not be truly preserved this is similar to Lacan’s Mirror stage in which we don't really have control on what we remember. Over time, our memories can change.
ReplyDeleteAn example that includes both of these theories is when I’m getting food in the vicinity of Hunter College. All the places to eat near Hunter College are extremely crowded. In general, every time I go and purchase something there is always an extensive line. Each person in the place I’m getting food at are making up their minds on what to get. So I basically get mad when the line does not move. Every second I'm contemplating about waiting in the long line and it makes me even more irritated. When it's my turn to order sometimes I simply forget about what I was going to order.
Lacan would say that I don't have any control over other people. I can’t speed up the process. I can’t make the workers prepare the food more quickly. I can’t make other people make up their minds on what to eat. I only have control over myself. I should probably focus on deciding what to order so when it's my turn the process is faster. Freud would say that there are other factors altering my memory. In this case, I focused mostly on the long line and when I’m in front of the line I forget about what I want to order. Even though this is a small experience it still implies that I can’t always rely on my memories because there are other aspects that can modify my memory.
According to Lacan, a child realizes that the only thing he can control is himself, so that's what he wants to protect the most. According to Freud, the only memories that we can remember are the ones that were important.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was younger, I would get in trouble with my parents. when I do something wrong.
I remember these memories more than times when my parents would reward me because I would lose the only control I have, which is myself, when I get in trouble.
Good connection Jenny! I have moments like that when I get annoyed that I cannot control myself when I need to memorize something but my brain is blank.
DeleteI like your story, it is very relatable and I can remember times like this but I also remember the rewards I got. I wonder if it changes from people to people wether they remember the smaller positive memories like this.
DeleteSo Jenny, relating to Freuds theory do you believe that you remembering your punishments more than rewards reveals something major about your identity.Maybe your a rebel at heart,but only focus on punishments in order to restrain you from disobedience?
DeleteMy sister and I compete almost all the time; we compare our grades, how we do in each other's exams, how well we can cook, and how quickly we finish our assignments. It’s a weird system because I’m competing against someone younger than me but we made rules to make it work. This game is our motivation to keep us going. If I look back to those moments when we competed, I only remember myself losing because it bothered me that I lost to someone 5 years younger than me. Losing to my sister impacted me a lot and that’s probably why, according to Freud’s theory, I remember those moments well. Jealousy may be seen as a bad thing sometimes, but I believe that in this case, jealousy was what motivated me to do better.
ReplyDeleteAs a supporter of Hobbes’s philosophy about the state of nature for men, “The condition of man [...] is a condition of war of everyone against everyone,” I believe humans are naturally competitive when they are exposed to what’s going around them. If a child was isolated with limited resources, they would not be as competitive because there’s nothing to compete against or for. But after an individual is exposed to the outside world, the individual notices new things that are available and starts to compete for it against others because of their jealousy. Lacan’s theory would support this and, in addition, would say that even though people can influence you to take a certain action or think a certain way, you in control of your own brain. Your personal feelings are created by the individual themselves because the individual has a choice to feel jealous or not, just as how I took my state of jealousy to good use.
-Rangon Islam
I remember when I brought home my report card and then proceeded to go to the park, I was stopped at the door because I didn't devote my free time to studying and should be all about my education. Here, Lacan would say I remember this because I lost control over myself and became obedient to what my parents would tell me to do. Freud would say I remember this because its significant and probably a memory where I felt defeated.
ReplyDeleteLacan's theory's relation to my anecdote would be how the child, gets angered or jealous over the fact that he can't control others and tries to preserve the one thing he can control, himself. Freud's theory works in the way that our memories are many, theres a specific reason that we remember what we remember.
DeleteI agree, Sometimes we remember stuff because the actions performed in the memory lead to a positive or negative consequence
DeleteLacan's theory is that a baby will identify itself and appreciate his ability to control himself and be jealous over not being able to control others. Freud's is that we memorize thing because they are significant or change our life. This morning I had to take my brother to school but i didn't want to, so i told my younger brother to drop him off on his way to school. When i said this he gave me a mad face but slugged his way out of bed early and got it done. Since i had control over my brother, i did have control and was satisfied because according to Lacans theory, I would've been unsatisfied if he didn't.
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ReplyDeleteIn Lacan's mirror theory, when a child looks at herself in the mirror she discovers that her reflection is not only an image of heeself,but also others. She can not say "I" without acknowledging the contributions of others to their identity. Others form her "I". In Freud's theory, he explains how one may lose their memories as new ones are formed,but they continue to help form one's identity.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was younger,every family function I was "de-Tashee-ed". Instead of being called by my actual name, I was called "Tims daughter"
"Hey y'all this is Tim's lil girl"
"Tim's mini me,can you pass me a soda?"
I was not my own person. My identity was lost in the reference to my father's relationship to OUR family,but then again I was young. Did I even have an identity yet? It bugged the living cramp out of me to not be identified by my own name in my own house. Like HELLOOOO my birth certificate does not say "Tim's lil girl...daughter...mini me...kin." The list can go on,but I rather not continue.
Lacan would most likely say that my experience proves his theory to be correct because after realizing that I was not my own person, I looked out to be recognized as independent. The feeling of not being considered as just "Tashee" with out anything coming before or after is great. Just Tashee. Sounds good to me.As for Freud, the fact that the memory has been piled up on my wax slab proves that the memory has proven to be important to my identity. Remembering at one point of my life I had to be connected to someone else to be recognized as a human being has driven me to make a name for myself. To escape the chants of "Tims daughter" and bathe in the serenity brought by just being "Tashee".
The theory of relativity encompasses all. Hypothetically, if I were to ever fail a test(when would I ever), my emotional response would largely be based on the relative test scores of my peers. It's natural tendency to be happy when your score is above average, and sad/jealous upon receiving a score below average, moreso below the greatest average. Within this context, relativity is the foundation of Lacan's Mirror theory in understanding that the perseption/introspection of self is relative to those who surround you..
ReplyDeleteFreud would probably try to psych me out a bit.. He'd probably end up concluding that I have an uncontrollable infatuation with cats. But in terms of Memory, he'd probably mention the fine line between a bad memory and a good one while pertaining to remembrance. If I desire, it's within my power to make the memory whatever I'd like it to be.