Tuesday, October 20, 2015
Blog Post #1: Due Class #16--Freud's Note on the Mystic Writing Pad
Relate Freud’s theory to either your own life (using personal narrative)
or to society (using impersonal analysis). Then comment on two other
students’ responses. Write your response directly on the blog and copy/paste it
into your google doc.
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Based upon our new found knowledge of identity, and analysis of the "Mystic Writing Pad"/Memory Apparatus, can it be implied that Freud subliminally suggests the idea of individuals living in their own distinct and personal realities as a result of "memory"? How might that affect how your perception of reality/identity?
ReplyDelete-Elijah Trimm Manning
DeleteI do not think that the idea is implied because I think his theory is particularly focusing on our memory and how it works. However, I feel like as we interpret his theory we are bound to think of our memories and how they work in a way that it intersects with our identity. This occurs because our memories serve as product of our personal experiences and our experiences serve as the basis for the creation of our own unique identities. I think the correlation results in the subliminal suggestion but I do not think that Freud intended to reveal or suggest this idea.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThat's an excellent point! However, when we examine Memory within this paradigm, we've agreed, correct me if I'm wrong, that it is a complex apparatus, ever changing, "subject to distortion", and most importantly, correlates to how we perceive our selves/our overall lives. It would seem that Memory has an overarching factor(not necessarily the sole factor) in the construct of reality, of how we view the World. Ya know what I mean?
DeleteSorry, not overarching.. but maybe significant would be a better fit?
DeleteAnd sorry the "how" in my first post, wasn't imtentional. Just read it as if it were never there. Try to forget it lol
DeleteI think it is implied that people experience the world in their own distinct and unique ways - there's no real way to experience someone else's life unless you ARE that person, and remember the same things they do. So yeah, I think Freud is saying that people have their own personal realities.
Delete-Omar
Like Omar, I do think there is no real way to experience someone else's life unless you are that person, and in fact it is what makes us distinct individuals. To answer’s Elijah’s question of “How might that affect how your perception of reality/identity?”, I think it affect us by allowing us to have different interpretation of this as we can see through this blog, people have different views on the topic because we have all have had different kind of experiences that link back to the topic, allows us to deduce different conclusions. I think it links back to this idea of identity because we allow our “memories” or the realities we live, to allow decide what kind of person we want to be for example. I think that’s a very interesting question because as I had discussed with Ms.Walsh, we can either let our memories, for example a negative one, make us bitter people or allow ourselves to learn from it and to grow as an individual.
DeleteCan a person truly rely on his/her memory?
ReplyDeleteI believe that people can not accurately rely on their memory. We do not (or at least I can't) remember everything that happens in a day. Even for major events in my life, there are only certain things that I remember. When talking about the past, especially things that happen years ago, we often change the events to what we want to remember. Memories are not always reliable.
I would like to continue my viewpoint that memories are not reliable by talking about the Adnan Syed story we learned about last year. The case of Adnan Syed relied heavily on people's memories or lack thereof. If a person's memory could be the decisive factor in whether a man is found guilty of murder or not, then can memory really be reliable?
-Omi
I thought back to Adnan Syed's case too and agree with Omi. Memories aren't reliable because not everything is worth remembering. If there is no significance attached to an event, then the memory is just another piece of celluloid. We reduce,reuse,and recycle memories therefore we never truly know how accurate our memories are, especially when its a memory from an every day task.
Delete-Tashee
I agree with Omi & Tashee because we DO remember important things and things that we WANT to remember. However, there is nothing we can do about the fact that memory is unreliable. Memory is basically all we have to help retrieve and recall past events, and it is kind of what we need to rely on. Of course there are videos, photos, and everything of that sort but memories are all we have. Also, it really is scary that memory is regarded as important and reliable - for all we know, Adnan Syed might be innocent and has been incarcerated all these years over false recollections. - Cierra
DeleteWe chose to make memories unreliable (if it's unimportant, we forget. If it's of a really really traumatizing event, we forget, or at least try to), but does that make them insignificant? If so and if our memories are our past, does that make parts of our past insignificant?
DeleteI really like how you connected back to Serial and Adnan Syed's case because that is a great example when questioning the validity and reliability of a memory. While hearing the podcast the class had a split decision on whether Adnan was guilty or not because Jay's story constantly changed. Being that he was the primary witness it was hard for us to make a confident decision and assure Adnan's guilt because Jay's memories were not reliable.
DeleteI understand that in some cases we are in control of what we want to remember and what we choose to remember but sometimes that is not the case which is why I feel like their are missing components to this theory.
Man, that says a lot about institutions. If we as highschool students can fathom the unreliabilty of memories, and its power of relatively effortless and infinite distortion, why is it that Memory is such a prominent "deciding factor" within society?
DeleteIn addressing the comparison to Adnan Syed's situation, we got an overlying sense of corruption with Jay's "memories". I don't necessarily believe Jay's memory was actually shaky, especially considering the nature of the event (seeing a dead body would be memorable to me--even more so if it was my first one), but we understood at the end that his stories were conforming with what the detectives wanted to hear from him in order to put the case to rest.
DeleteAlso I truly disagree with the notion that we selectively sustain memories, because any event with a relatively significant emotional impact will be a part of your most prominent memories. You don't FORGET memories that were traumatizing, but rather overcome them. This is a huge deal, because it ties in with how memories shape you and your identity, given that that experience has altered you in some form (made you more aware, fearful, careful, etc...). Therefore when you overcome a tragic moment, you don't forget the experience, but instead you get over the emotional damage that was caused by it.
If memories are not reliable, then what can we use to recall past events - besides photos, social media, and items of that nature? - Cierra
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, if we can not use material things to recall past events, then the only thing that we can use is other people that share the same memory as us. But as I said in my reply, these memories are not exactly reliable as well. They can either comply with your version of events or have a completely different story. But that goes to my theory that we can not truly trust the human brain to remember our past unless we rely on material things. We all remember differently.
Delete- Bao
I mean, I agree that we all remember things differently, but I disagree that we can't trust our brains to remember stuff without material assistance. We don't remember every last thing that happens to us, but we tend to remember the things that matter. I'm sure that the memories you have that are the most vivid are of something you consider important.
DeleteIn short, memories are reliable when they're important, but not all memories are important.
- Omar
Bao hit it on the nail, it seems as though the association of a common memory allows an overarching Memory--one free from bias and manipulation. Which speaks to the concept of living in "multiple realities". I try to think of it like this.. When we look to a statue, all standing at different angles, at different vantage points. We will NOT have the same perception of the statue as the individual on the other side of the statue, nor beside us. We only have what we know the statue to be, solely from our owm personal perception. However, theoritically, in combining all of our perspectives of the the "statue", we end up with a full picture of the entire statue as a whole, rather than a smaller picture of the bigger picture. This is my simplistic concept of how these phenomena- Memory, Identity, and blah, work. Only in the sense of explaining how there can essentially be multiple tales to the telling of the same story, that are all relatively true. Just a thought though, there is obviously a much more complex device behind this concept, but I think it would take too long a message to completely address every aspect that could be.
DeleteIf you are talking about if you can trust what you remember, then sort of. It depends on the importance of that memory and even then you might forget a couple of things over time. If you are talking if your memories are accurate to what actually happened, probably not because you only know your side of the story.
DeleteWell, if you really want something to help jog that memory, you can look at different things. You can look at your body, for example if you forget about an event that left you a scar, that scar is the reminder. Or look at your habits and why it is you do them the way you do them.
Delete-Mersad
I agree with Omar in that people tend to have concrete details of a memory if it is considered to be significant in any way. However, even if it is extremely vivid it doesn't prove that the memory is accurate. Your reliability on memory lays on objects that bring a reoccurring event in your mind.
DeleteI think this is a great question Cierra. I don't think a person will ever be able to truly recall past events unless of course it happened the day before. However, I think one way to trust the accuracy of a memory besides using pictures or social media is if you are able to talk about an event and have someone collaborate everything you remember.
DeleteI agree with Omoyele. A person can't recall exactly what happened in the past. However, I also think that even events from the day before is distorted in our memories by the emotions that we feel. For example, person A is in a bad mood and is hit by a ball by person B. Person A might perceive that piece of memory as person B purposely threw the ball at person A. On the other hand, if person A was in a good mood, then, person A might not have accused person B. It's difficult to recall past events with validity because our memory is made up of past events and our emotions. - Jenny Huang
DeleteI agree with Jerry and Omar in that we, for the most part, need something significant to happen in order to remember and be able to describe accurately the memory.
Deletewe can use those items but only to a certain extent. Items and videos can help create a certain part of the memory but never the whole thing fully. For example, a video can show a part of the memory but events after or prior to that certain frame all not always be remembered
DeleteMemories are finicky things when it comes to their validity. When we remember an event, we are technically remembering the last time that we recalled this event; as we recall that memory more and more, bits and pieces are altered. So how do we know what we think happened is actually true or not? We can ask other people to corroborate our story. But the negative outcome of this event is that their memories can also vary from ours. Everyone remembers the same events differently. Memories are not permanent but that does not mean we forget things that happened years ago either. It just means our interpretation of our memory is different from the events that actually took place.
ReplyDeleteFor example, when I first came to this country, I remember having a burger and fries as my first meal. In my mind, the food was from McDonald's but according to my parents, the food was from Wendy's. So who's memory can we rely on? Mine's or my parents'?
- Bao
I agree with you Bao, 100%. Memory is somewhat flawed because there are factors that play a role in its reliability. For example, when you think about past events, a lot of people tend to mix two events together or they confuse real events with imaginary ones. Plus, I think that humans unconsciously fill in missing parts of an event that happened to you years ago in order to frame the whole story together. Basically, what you think probably happened might not have had occurred.
Delete- Christina O.
I agree with Christina because our memories are flawed when we have to recall something that happened a while ago. Also, as humans we face so many wonderful and dreadful events that we store in our brain so the more experiences and events that we retain the harder it is for us to recall that one specific moment in our lives without mixing that event with one or more events.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI also agree with Christina, our memories are not always reliable, while some people can hold onto memories from their childhood, our memories can be from a long time ago, most details may be vague, or bias because it's from our perspective and we may see things differently than others do.
Delete-Marie Verdi
I agree with Cierra because I feel that we choose to remember what we want, but why? Why do we bother/choose to remember things? What is so important about memories that we decide to hold on to them?
ReplyDeleteI really like this question Tashee! I like to think that we decide to hold on memories because memories make up our identity and contribute to who we are today. Our memories contain our life obstacles and achievements and without them, we would simply not be ourselves. When we recall these memories, it allows us to see the journey that leads to our present selves .
DeleteI feel as though we don't really choose to remember things, it just naturally comes to us. For example, when you are studying for a math test you want to remember the concepts that you learned but when you sit and actually take the test you sometimes forget even though you took the initiative and chose to remember the material. Another example is when you are in a traumatic experience such as a car accident and you want to erase that memory but no matter how much you try it will always be with you.
DeleteI said/think the same thing Bao! And to answer your question Tashee, I also think that sometimes we don't chose to remember things that have happened. Sometimes our mind just makes us remember. For example, I remember this one time where I was crying on this blue reclining thingy at my old daycare because I was spanked (all because I didn't eat my lunch). I definitely didn't chose to remember this because it was humiliating. So I think that the memories we do remember, whether we chose to or not, depends on whether it has emotional ties to us. (Me and Katelan were talking about this before so shoutout to Katelan.)
Delete-Valerie
To answer Tashee's question, we remember things that we want to remember because it's signficant - such as something really funny, really important, or something life changing. Therefore, memories are important and make up who we are as people. Also, I agree with the fact that we actually do remember things that we do not want to remember, thus proving that memories do play a big role in our identity, despite if we like it or not.
DeleteWe tend choose what memories we want to hold on to and try to forget the rest because some memories can open old wounds for people and take them back to that dark place that they once escaped. Also, some memories don't really show the good sides to the person so they rather not tell to people or try to remember it because the more they remember that moment the more they start become the person from that time in their lives.
Delete-Victoria
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI agree with Bao. The memories that we keep in our minds are what makes up our identity. These small pieces of past events that remain in our brain are somewhat like building blocks that makes us who we are today. I also agree with Christina because everyone has a traumatic experience that we can't forget about no matter how hard we try. This also brings back to what I agreed to earlier. These traumatic events either make us stronger or weaker, therefore, we hold onto them because they're also what made us who we are. - Jenny Huang
DeleteIn regards to memories and identity, I think that memories make us who we are. And when I say this, I mean ALL of our memories. Even that seemingly insignificant memory you had of that one time when you accidentally tripped over that uneven pavement outside your house and dropped your halal food. Memories are just a bunch of past events, experiences, and decisions we made and because our past plays a crucial role to our identity, we, in that sense, are our memories. Even if we don't remember most of our memories, they're still there and still made an impact on us, no matter how small or big, during that time it happened. For example, that one time I decided to binge-watch Skins instead of doing DEJ's is a memory that impacted me because it shows that sometimes I'm irresponsible. I don't specifically remember this happening but I can almost promise that it probably did even though I don't remember it happening. Just out of curiosity: can a memory/past event only be considered as a memory if you specifically remember it happening or can it just be any past event that is suppressed in your subconscious? Does that make sense? No? Okay.
ReplyDelete-Valerie N.
I agree with Valerie. What your brain chooses to remember is an image of who you are. For me, my memories are usually very funny like when someone tells a joke that I have been laughing for a while about I will always remember that. Basically, your memories just display your personality.
ReplyDeleteBased on what we read today and my own personal experiences I find Freud's analogy/metaphor about memory particularly interesting. It was interesting to me because after I read his theory I felt like I could agree and disagree with him almost simultaneously. I say this because when we think about his analogy/metaphor about memory we can see many similarities between how our memory works and how the magic slate toy works. After we discussed it as a class I came to the conclusion that no matter how hard we can say we remember a specific memory accurately we are unable to. Why? Freud proves this by pointing out that when you erase a memory on the magic slate toy it remains hidden as you continue to layer new memories on top of it. However, although the oldest memory is still their (permanently) the memory gets distorted due to the constant and continuous new addition of memories. In my interpretation when talking about the magic slate toy the stylus is distorting the memory because every time you pick up the stylus you are trying to write something new. In order to write down a new memory you have to make space for it thus' you must erase the previously recorded memory. That's where the distortion takes place. When talking about the human brain time serves as the primary cause for the distortion of memories.
ReplyDeleteFor example, many of us when getting to know each other start off by introducing ourselves and go on into revealing what our childhood was like and what we did during that time. This where the idea that our memories and experiences form part of our identity. Personally, I have several memories I can talk about but certain pieces are missing or I think something happened and it really didn't. I can say I did something when I was 5 years old but what if in reality I was older or younger?How can we remember something that happened a decade ago and not alter it? The answer is we can't. In this sense I agree with his theory in its totality. However, I feel like he's missing a lot of key aspects. This is where i disagree with him or feel like he should elaborate on his analogy.
How does this analogy work when we talk about our dreams/nightmares?Why can we remember some parts of our dreams/nightmares and not others? Who/What makes the decision?
How fit is this metaphor for people who go through traumatic experiences and are vulnerable to memory loss or choose to block the memory?
How fit is this analogy to the overall outside factors that can contribute to memory retention or memory loss?
- Crystal
Freud definitly has holes in his theory, but they are holes that can not be filled. Every opinion we have has a counter claim or an exception. Usually when theories are made there were 3 trials runned beforehand in order to strengthen and prove the theory,but this can't be done with memories. Almost everything within the topic of memories is unknown except the fact that memories are things we remember.
DeleteTo touch on Crystal's idea of remembering dreams/nightmares that question is hard to answer.Im kind of stuck on it because we think of memories as things that have happened to us,like we were physically there witnessing or interacting at that moment,but dreams aren't part of reality,but just a scenerio that our brain creates. So what are dreams? Where do they come from? Are they technically memories if we define memories as moments we were physically part of?
I love your point of view Tashee, I was just thinking, when we talk about dreams and then say deja vu, What is it, is it something our brain unconsciously causes us to do because we've seen or been apart of the moment already, or is it just something by chance?
DeleteI find it so interesting that this post brings up dreams because in class it didn't even occur to me. I also love how Crystal brings up so many questions about external factors. Since this theory is brought up by Freud, dreams are actually a reasonably questionable part of his theory since he is also known for his study of dreams and psychoanalysis. Dreams are a tricky thing, since we mostly have no control over them and they can be straightforward or can leave us feeling weird. Freud is notorious for saying that nothing really happens by chance, but is in fact your unconsciousness motivating your thoughts and actions. This can even branch out to the weird Oedipus Complex, but we don't need to talk about that. If this is the case, where do dreams come from? I agree with Freud that dreams come from a motivation from our subconscious. But where, visually, do dreams come from? Do they come from our memories? How about nightmares? Because what we dream about may not always be a memory, but instead a made up situation, is it safe to assume that these dreams/nightmares come from our own imaginations? I believe that it is, since the monsters we used to dream about as kids aren't actually real. We've never really seen them. Even a nightmare about people who we know in real life can still be considered a product of imagination. We've never really heard those people say the exact thing as in our dreams. Instead, we imagined it, and projected them in our dreams. This could just be our subconsciousness (or unconsciousness?) warning us of a fear that we have or simply just trying to tell us something important about our own desires.
DeleteI agree with Tashee, Cierra, and Omi because when we sit down and think about we never can really explain what exactly happened that day. Since we have new experiences happening everyday the memory that we had like two months even a year ago is very hazy because we don't have the full gist of that moment anymore. We may have the major details but the little ones that may have played a big part into that event happening we tend to sometimes forget or get it mixed up with something else.
ReplyDelete-Victoria
I agree with you, Tori, as time is a major factor in altering our memory. I agree when you say that we experience new things every day, therefore memories from even a few days ago can be forgotten. Little details, but sometimes even bigger ones, can be forgotten as we are constantly overwhelmed with new events. Do you think there is a way to remember those little details?
Delete-Sinead Kiernan
I think as humans we tend to forget a lot of things and sometimes tend to add whatever we want to a memory that we want to talk about or recall. Why do we do that? I think we do this because we live in a society where most people a say in everything and if someone doesn't have a say they seem like the outlier. So in order not to feel like an outlier in a society that does nothing but talk about their experiences and we as humans have to try to 'fluff' a memory that we may not truly remember.
DeleteTo Sinead's response, I don't really think that there is a way to remember those little details because we when we talk about history in its full capacity there is always something missing. Due to the fact, that there too many things happening in that given moment that the little details get ignored because we are just so focused trying to write down what is actually happening before another thing comes up.
Delete-Victoria
I personally believe that although Freud does do a good job with trying to analyze the human mind, his mystic writing pad comparison doesn't really work for me. It is far too simple. He says that the human mind is "one hand writing upon the surface of the mystic writing pad periodically raises its covering sheet from the wax slab." This implies that we technically remember everything that happened to us because we experienced it, we wrote on the stone slab and raised the covering sheet in other words.However i doubt any one of us can accurately recall what they were doing two weeks ago on Wednesday at 3 p.m. I don't even remember what I did yesterday that well. Do I have to experience a certain thing to memorize that event or is it lost forever in my memories? Can a memory be lost in your memories?
ReplyDeleteHey Anthony,
DeleteWassap Man?
Now I'm going to let you finish...but you have one of the incorrect point of views in my opinionm my friend.Yes he does talk about the wax slab, but don't you remember the idea about remembering things that are only significant enough to be remembered? Just as you wouldn't go out of your way to remember the first phone number you got, because you have no use of it, you only remember the current phone number because you make use of it.So in short, you wouldn't remember what you were doing two weeks ago if it wasn't something significant.
-Mersad (Meryeezus)
I think the Mystic Writing Pad analogy is great and all, but I don't think it's as accurate as the example with papers; you have a bunch of paper with notes scribbled all over them, and yes you will get overwhelmed and lose old notes, but you still have it. As for the Mystic Pad, you write a note, forget it, but remnants of the idea of the note still exist. Freud's theory doesn't do it for me, but what do you think?
ReplyDelete-Omar
I think Freud is trying to say that as time passes, only the most vital memories stay intact (yes Mersad did convince me a little). You might not remember everything that happened in elementary school, but you remember you went to elementary school. That sort of thing.
DeleteMeryeezus*
DeleteWell he does sort of say the same thing about the Mystic Writing Pad. He says that the even when you erase something from it, looking at the wax slab in certain lights, you can still see impressions of what was written before. The remnants that remain on the Mystic Writing Pad are there to serve a different purpose than the discarded papers. I think that while the papers show that memories are just cast aside and lose significance, the remnants on the Mystic Writing Pad are there to show that the memories and everything that is collected is literally layered and built upon, potentially showing that memories are, in fact, significant. The reason he shows both the paper analogy and the Mystic Writing Pad one is to show two different arguments/perceptions on memories. In this case, I think it is up to you, at that point, to determine which you think is more convincing.
DeleteI agree with you and its a very questionable idea, throughout history, I feel as if we've improved in that aspect of collecting our memory all in the same place (phones, computers) but i feel like we can improve more and its not really possible to remember everything in your history.
DeleteWhat do you guys think of the idea of memory "anchors". Little things that have a significant purpose in our memories and helps us remember those moments just by looking at it? Do you think its the actual object or manifestation of it that helps jog our memory or is it the experience we had to obtain it?
ReplyDelete-Mersad
I think memory anchors work for memories that you still somewhat remember. Memories that haven't been completely forgotten but aren't in your top ten memories of all time. I don't think they work for memories already forgotten.
DeleteIn psychology, I learned that these things that help us remember moments are called retrieval cues. They essentially assist a person in retrieving their memory through hints or any kind of connection that relates back to the memory. I don't necessarily agree with Anthony though because if you look at a picture from a really long time ago then it's possible that you will remember what happened through the picture.
DeleteI think memories probably would not exist without "anchors," aka triggers. The memories that we lose are usually the one's that have no attachments in different aspects of your life. As for what exactly about anchors jogs our memory, I think the actual object manifests into emotional and visual remembrance. If an object is related to a memory, then that objects will be meaning in physicality and other characteristics.
DeleteNice! If you don't mind, the easiest way to explain the concept of memory anchors is through neuroscience, more specifically examining neuronal function within the brain. Although I cannot fully explain how memory works, I do know that the equation does factor into neural activity in response to different stimuli. When we preform certain activities, specific sets of neurons fire in response to those activities. So in application to Memory, when these neurons fire in whichever specific pattern, the sensory stimuli, or memory anchor, is what initiates the neuronal response. This allows "remembrance" to occur.
DeleteNice! If you don't mind, the easiest way to explain the concept of memory anchors is through neuroscience, more specifically examining neuronal function within the brain. Although I cannot fully explain how memory works, I do know that the equation does factor into neural activity in response to different stimuli. When we preform certain activities, specific sets of neurons fire in response to those activities. So in application to Memory, when these neurons fire in whichever specific pattern, the sensory stimuli, or memory anchor, is what initiates the neuronal response. This allows "remembrance" to occur.
DeleteI believe Tashee raised a very interesting question: “What is so important about memories that we decide to hold on to them?" Personally, I believe memories are one of the most essential components that make us human and life worth living. The ability to be able to remember things enable us to make connections, interact with other, become aware of things, among other factors. When I read Tashee's question the first thing that came to my mind was "How horrible it must be for those who suffer Alzheimer's disease, and how lost they must feel." Not being able to recognize the ones they love nor the memories that are attach to those people. I mean can you imagine yourself waking up one day not being able to remember who you are nor those around you, not even your own parents. To me, it like living in a room (the brain) full of darkness where confusion and frustration are your only companion.
ReplyDeletePersonally, every time there’s a special occasion my family also carries a camera, because they love taking pictures. I recall one time my cousin asked my aunt why she always has to take pictures, my aunt responded by telling her that in the end pictures and our memory is all we have left when we look back at this experience. The way I see it now, after reading Freud’s work, is that we love taking pictures because it is our way of grabbing onto time. This is because we are aware that our brain can’t be absolutely reliable. For when we look back at these pictures we are able to have more vivid version of such memory, for by seeing that picture it will force something in our brain to connect the picture to the memory that has been buried within the subconscious. (Please take into account that I am aware that the memory won’t be fully accurate). Because truth is that once a person is no longer with us, or is distant from us, the memories you have with them are what you will have left. This is why we even take upon the effort of doing a Yearbook, because it will allow us in the years ahead to remember that which our brain may not be able to effective do without an incentive (in this case the Yearbook).
---Tania Pena Ortiz
DeleteI definitely agree with you, Tania, as I you captured what it feels like to be without memories. The way that you described what a memory, as a way for us to "make connections, interact with other, become aware of things" reminds me of identity. In my opinion, you seem to connect memories to identities because of the significance of remembering. Our identities are based off of, not entirely, but they are a significant factor, of what you classified to be apart of memory. So are you saying, or do you think, that there is a correlation between memory and identity?
Delete-Sinead Kiernan
That is something that I also question: the reality of someone that suffers from memory loss and how it diverges from our own. Like any other condition or circumstance, it's hard to tell if that person would actually understand the degree of what they'e 'missing out on' if they aren't able to experience. Something we often take for granted is that we're privileged enough to have a lifestyle that consists of positive memories that outweigh negative ones. So many kids and families that are exposed to less fortunate conditions of socioeconomic standings are restricted to less memorable events in their life that they consider positive or 'something that they'd want to remember'. For people who are exposed to similar circumstances ( like those that haven't overcame the loss of loved ones, a broken heart, or something as severe as regularly not having food on their plates or a stable/safe household), they'd be most effectively blissful with ignorance. No one wants to deal with the constant reminder of pain, or tragedy, or anything of that nature. Situations like these often lead to depression and suicidal contingencies. Therefore being someone that has impaired memory isn't necessarily, under all circumstances, a bad thing. I'm personally someone that attributes much of my happiness to my optimism, and that allows me to see that there is way too much to live for, understanding that every life event is trivial in the larger scheme that is my life.
DeleteI think there is a slight are between memory and identity because many people remember the time that they were called out for being a certain race and had a label on them due to the stereotypes that are imposed upon them. Like that is a time that they recall but that doesn't have anything to do with their identity. For example, most people associate kool-aid and short hair with black people. But there are black people who have long hair and they don't drink kool-aid. So how does them remembering that moment in their life correlate with their identity?
Delete-Victoria
I definitely agree with you Tania, our memories end up shaping who we are, from our likes or dislikes to the type of person we end up becoming. Those features of our life are made up by the memories we have. Sometimes bad memories shape who we are, what we want to become and what we want to avoid, and that Tori is kinda how it relates to identity. Memories are the things we want to take with us.
DeleteEven though memories are depictions of who we are, memories are not always completely reliable. There are always other factors that can alter your perception of your memory. For example, a person can have the choice to make alterations to their memory if their memory has had a traumatic impact. So they tend to forget about that event or try to find a positive facet out of the agonizing memory. Also, people can choose to adjust their memory to satisfy them. An example of this can be seen through a criminal investigation, the suspected criminal can alter their memory so that he/she does not incriminate himself/herself.
ReplyDelete- Jerry
I don't actually agree with the possibility of someone forgetting an event simply because it was a traumatic experience; in fact that's what would make the event so much more memorable. Memories aren't something that we can consciously select to preserve and/or throw away. People that claim to have forgotten about an event that was clearly influential in a negative manner merely end up creating alternate perceptions of their lives that differ from their real ones. I don't mean to bring it back to last year's English, but Adnan Syed is a great example of someone who constantly denies any notion of the crime that he evidently committed (debatable). He created a new version of his life in which he wholeheartedly believed in his innocence, and that reality was much more convenient for him than his actual one.
DeleteI understand what you're saying, a traumatic experience is one that can be memorable but what I am trying to say is that it's a memory that a person wouldn't want to hold on to.
DeleteThis question is for Nicholas:
DeleteDo you find the idea of selective memory to be false?
I personally agree that some memories are just to painful for a person to want to remember. For instance, if a female was sexually assaulted as a child (like in the movie Addicted), her brain my switch off the memory so she doesn't have to deal with the pain and trauma, unless,like Isatou said, something triggers the event.
I agree with Jerry, as there are many different factors that can cause memories to be altered. Whether that be time, outside influences, other people's experiences, I think that it is hard to decipher which memories are true, and which ones have been exaggerated or embellished. Without realizing it, there are things that can alter our memory, maybe something seen on t.v. or read in a book. Or even someone with a similar experience, or maybe different, could have influenced your memory of an event, therefore exerting flaws or inaccuracies to the memory. Therefore I am unsure of how reliable our memories are. However, I think that writing every single memory down is tedious and still may not be completely accurate. I think we have to have some self assurance that the memories that are significant will stick with us and those memories that seem insignificant will filter out.
ReplyDelete-Sinead Kiernan
From my understanding of memory, it isn't something that is intentionally selective. Like many of us said in class, and I'm sure have expressed in this blog, we don't choose the memories that remain with us over time. However, one of the strongest factors that contribute to the preservation of a memory is the emotional attachment to that event. Isatou used her personal experience in class today to describe how she naturally affiliates a past event in her life with music that concurred with the moment and made it memorable. This is an example of this phenomenon. We are naturally inclined to remember events, not by their degree of significance (although this can overlap), but by their emotional impact.
ReplyDeleteOne of the most vivid memories I have to date traces back to the last moments I spent in the U.S. prior to my departure to Greece, in the summer before 6th grade. The first person I considered my best friend came over to my aunt's house (where I stayed for that summer) on one of the few remaining days of my stay in America. One of the moments I'll never forget in my life was his reaction upon coming to the realization that he wouldn't see me again for a really long time, considering everything was ready and set for me to move to Greece. He was already known for being a "cry-baby", but I had never seen someone look so emotionally distraught and devastated before in my life. My aunt and his father had to forcefully drag him to the car, as I looked from the window of the 2nd floor of the house at him panting and weeping, shouting my name and begging me not to leave. Tears were running down my face uncontrollably, as there was nothing that I could do to ameliorate the pain my friend was feeling, and the feeling of emptiness I felt upon realizing the same thing he had.
If memory was selective, this wouldn't have impacted me the way it did in the years that followed. Moreover, this memory wasn't significant to a devastating degree, since losing friends and moving across the globe became almost a hobby in my life. He wasn't the last close friend I lost to residential circumstances, although he was one of the first. And my memory recognizes that in its entirety. Ultimately, that's how memory (at least mine) filters between what is preserved and what is disbanded to the deepest layers of your brain: EMOTIONAL IMPACT.
I completely believe in this phenomena. We do not choose the memories that remain with us, we are only connected to them due their "emotional impact." I challenge people to actually tract every memory they have and analyze it to figure out it's source. I am almost certain that they'll find the source to be related to "emotion."
DeleteI love your anecdote, and I completely agree with you and Isatou's comment!
DeleteThis phenomenon is evident to us as human beings. In many instances, we tend to remember positive things to encourage ourselves. On the other hand, we like to drown ourselves in negative memories on a gloomy day. Emotions truly create long lasting memories.
-Calvin
The relationship between memory and identity is not one with direct parallelism. Yet, our memories are a major part of our identity. Like I said in class, we do not have a control of which memories to hold on to and which to let go. It just happens. Memory is at the heart of the way most people think about personal identity.
ReplyDeleteIt is because an individual remembers his/her first kiss that he/she might think that he's/she's the same person as that awkward adolescent. In fact, If I had no memory of past experiences, the sense that I existed in the past would be dramatically compromised. How are we to know that we exist without memories? While this might seem like a digression, history is just like memory. It's a long record of remembrances from the past that confirms that humanity has been around for a while. In correspondence to Freud's theory, History, when observed under different lights (aka lenses or perspectives) has different meaning. A description of what happened during the Vietnam by an American is quiet different from that of an Vietnamese. Similarly, a memory can metamorphosize into different things for different people.
In this sense, I think memories are related to our identity because they provide a somewhat concrete testimony to our existence in the past, thus giving us a sense of "self."
I agree that our memories are a major part of our identity. One can act according to what they remember, although it may not necessarily be correct. Subsequently, one's actions form his identity. Also, I love the way you explained what history meant for different people. It is interesting that while people feel differently about a particular event, history exists independently.
Delete-Calvin
Personally, everyday events just come and go. For instance, I can't remember what many of my classmates in English class wore today. A lot of things, though, are buried inside my brain, unerasable. How is this possible?
ReplyDeleteIn my perspective, which also connects with Freud's theory, I subconsciously write my memories with different writing tools. I guess that I would write everyday events with a chalk or a pencil, which are erasable and temporary. In other words, they don't hold any significance. On the other hand, I would write significant events with a pen or a permanent marker for that matter.
In conclusion, different writing tools affect how long memories last.
-Calvin
I agree with you Calvin. Somehow the brain chooses its own writing utensil to mark down what it remembers but we don't always control which writing utensil it will write with. And depending on the type of writing utensils, some memories last longer and clearer than others.
Delete-Rangon Islam
Memories are moments in our life that impact how we grow as people and in a sense our foundation. However as Freud stated, sometimes the memories we have are changed a bit, as it's in our point of view and can never be clearly remembered, they still generate a strong impact that we carrying through out our lives as we hold onto old memories and generate new ones regardless of them being good or bad.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you Marie because the more memories you build up in your life the harder it becomes to have a clear memory in your brain. They start fading away but they never get forgotten or erased. They just get old and difficult to remember
DeleteI agree when you say that memories can change a bit based on our point of view because as we get older some memories become a blur or we explain it with less details. -Jada
DeleteMemories are something we rely on as students because we need to memorize notes and homework assignments to get us ready and organized for what's ahead. Some memories maybe distorted because our new memories blur the old. Personally, the memories I would remember most is something that impacted me the most. I would usually remember scary scenes in a movie more clearly than the happy and fun scenes. It would mostly be the case because the scary scenes affect me the most since it sends chills down spine. Also, my personal accomplishments are also remember, but not so often the journey of how I got it unless it impacted me as a person. Sometimes we choose to remember our memories and sometimes we don't. I've always waned to get rid of the ghost's face from those horror movies but they scared me so much to the point that I remember all of it so vividly.
ReplyDelete-Rangon Islam
I think the same way Rangon, the way i remember a memory or not all depends on the significance it had to me. There are also some things that you just have to force your memory like school work or if you have to do something really important.
DeleteOur conversation on "Freud's Note on the Mystic Writing Pad" during class was extremely interesting because I don't think any of us really thought that deeply about 'memories'. I read through our classmates' comments and replies, and many people, including myself, believe that memories make us who we are and we don't really get to choose what memories we keep. I find it so amazing that there are some memories are from so long ago, and are so random and seem so irrelevant, but yet, we still remember them. I still remember this one moment when I was around 2-3 years old in China. I was walking around outside my house while staring at my tiny red shoes. I don't remember what I was thinking, but I was just walking further and further, until my grandma called for me to eat lunch. I ran back towards the house in my pretty red shoes. This was such a random moment from so long ago, and yet I still remember it, but I don't know why I remember it. Now I'm questioning if this actually happened because memories can be distorted. I'm just sharing this because I thought it was quite funny and interesting that we remember such random moments.
ReplyDeleteThe brain somehow chooses our memories. They could be as little as your experience or something else that changed a person. It would be interesting to know how the actual process works in our brains.
DeleteCan a person truly rely on his/her memory
ReplyDeleteI think you can rely on your memory definitively up until you start to think about wether its reliable or not. Once you question it, you make it seem like you're not trustworthy or seeing things.
-Jeudy
No you can't! You can't trust anyone including yourself! Your memory is not reliable due to the fact that so much goes into your mind that it can cross and mix. The overlaps disorient what we think we remember.
DeleteI believe that Freud does a good job explaining how the mind and our memories would work. The storage in our mind is limitless but we can only access a certain amount. We don't get to choose what we can store because our minds are selective. -Devin
ReplyDeleteI agree with the mind being limitless! and I really like the way he describes they way the mind works too. He relates a writing pad to memories which is interesting because it allows us to have our own interpretation of what each object actually is. -Jada
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ReplyDeleteI believe that memory isn't reliable because as we recall memories through past experience we recall them differently based on certain emotions we feel at that moment. Memoirs can still still be accurate but instead of based on specific memories, the accurate part would be the way we perceive ourselves. -Jada Rodriguez
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